Saturday, February 9, 2013

Croatia & Who Are The Croatian Orthodox







Before continuing to read the text below, a few things need to be elaborated on.  Background information that gives more insight.  Firstly, mention must be made about the role of the Serbian Orthodox church in the 19th century, the times of the first actual appearance of it on Croatian soil, mainly around the 18th century after the so-called Serb Migrations from Ottoman Turk controlled Serbia, (Sanjak of Smederevo) as well as the older history of Orthodoxy in Croatia before migration of any Serbs.

Although especially now, and for over a thousand years, because of history and the politico-cultural movements over the centuries, Croatia has been tied overwhelmingly to Western Europe culturally and Roman Catholicism civilizationally for many centuries, like a number of other Central European nations. However  the fact remains that there was at times an Orthodox/Byzantine rite  presence in the Croatian lands long before the appearance of Serbs.  Croatia was for centuries a bulwark against Ottoman Turks encroaching onto the European continent, but even before that it was a Kingdom that was situated at times as the dividing line between Catholic Western Europe and the Byzantine East. There were even times when Croats in some areas belonged to the Byzantine Rite church,(or more precisely the Eastern/Greek Catholic churches, which was common even in Italy)  During the early years of Croatian statehood in the 9th century to 11th century, Croatian kings and rulers made alliances and agreements with Rome, The Franks and even the Bulgarians as well as Constantinople/Byzantium  whenever the need arose or proved to be advantageous to the Croatian Kings.

 The Eparchy of Križevci later was a monumental example of catering to Greek Catholic rite Croats centuries later.  (This was very unpopular with the newly arrived Serbs however.   After the Ottoman defeat in the Battle of Sisak of 1593, the Habsburgs established an ecclesiastical jurisdiction in full communion with Rome and separate from the Serbian Orthodox Church, on 17 November 1735, the supporters of the Serbian Orthodox Church occupied by force of arms the monastery of Marča and two years later, on 17 June 1737, set fire to it. The monastery was restored to the Byzantine-Rite Catholics in 1753 but many Orthodox Serbs opposed the new eparchy and viewed it with disdain)  The Serbian orthodox leadership were proclaiming that they should be the only church to have authority and jurisdiction over any and all Orthodox or Byzantine-rite people. Some instances of Catholic churches being outright taken by Serbs have been documented.

So even well after the collapse of the Byzantine Empire, a few pockets of these Eastern rite churches still existed.  Through the following centuries, especially along the coastal areas during the "Age of Empires", some Byzantine rite churches sprang up in response to Orthodox people arriving......traveling merchants, soldiers and sailors from Russia and Greece, and to a lesser degree, from Ukraine and Romania in some areas. The late 18th century Orthodox church of St. Elias in Zadar being a prime example. (Which I also saw in person in 2011 and found out many of these and more  interesting facts)  These few and far between  Orthodox churches were however for the most part just churches that catered to ALL of these Orthodox rite people in that area, including Croats.  However, after the first noticeable appearance of Serbs arriving from Ottoman areas in the 18th century as mentioned,  suddenly many of these churches started to become strictly Serbian Orthodox churches.  People and communities who attended services there for years were suddenly forced to become Serbian orthodox or flee.  Over time, much later, during the first Yugoslavia in the 20th century, the Serbian royal dictatorship even started the practice of building Serbian churches in Non-Serb lands where there wasn't even a population of Serbs or even of any Orthodox people to speak of, up to even building an arrant Serb church in the city of Ljubiljana.  (All this is just some good background information to know)  For more about the facts discussed this far see croatianmedievalhistory.blogspot.ca and strossmayeryugoslavia.blogspot.ca

Another example, and this information is omitted on Wikipedia for obvious reasons by you know who.  The Zagreb Orthodox Cathedral is today considered a Serbian Orthodox cathedral, mainly because of politics over the past century and a half. What isn't mentioned is this. The church was originally the Catholic church of St. Margaret which belonged to the Zagreb diocese, and was mentioned even in 1334 as the parish church next to which „St. Margaret fairs“ were held. Later the church was added to the parish church of St. Mark and in 1794 it was sold to Greek Orthodox merchants who worked in Zagreb as merchants and bankers and were a beneficial people to be included into Croatian society, contributing in and promoting many spheres of Croatian culture. When the number of Greeks was reduced after a time, orthodox Serbs then started moving into the city, (again attempting to promote the idea to the Austro-Hungarian empire that they are the only orthodox people in the Croatian lands, and so then they started using the church as well. In a short time the remaining Greeks had to leave or were coerced into learning Serbian script and language and thus becoming Serbs. This was similarly done to other pockets of Orthodox or Greek Catholic parishioners)  Due to it's age, the old church was demolished and on its place the present Cathedral of the Transfiguration of The Lord was built. Because of its history, the street behind the church is today called Margaretska, and the one going in front of the church is called Transfigurations. It was built in 1866 and was designed by a Croatian architect Franjo Klein. In 1883-1884, it was restored by an Austrian architect Hermann Bollé. That was when the historical iconostasis with icons were added to the church, made by painter Epaminondas Bučevski from Černovci in Bukovina. Bollé restored the church two more times, in 1899 when the new cap tower was put and in 1913/ 1914 when the front of the church was completely modified. During all this time the Serbian community totally usurped the church and vehememently considered it to be strictly Serbian.

....Does this Orthodox/Greek Catholic presence bother me? Not at all. Why should it?  Croatia will never be an Orthodox country or people because Croatia's historical course, cultural ties and direction were for the most part set in stone well over a thousand years ago.  However, if a segment wants to use a Byzantine/Greek rite these days, all the power to them.  They will still be Croatian in Croatian lands.  These days you can find Croatian Pagans, atheists, secular humanists, polytheists, Jewish, Lutheran and other denominations, maybe not many but they are there.  In Croatia you can even find followers of other religions, even followers of Hare Krishna , Church of Scientology and other groups/new age movements.  (Although I'm concerned especially with Jehova Witnesses, Mormons and American Televangelist types making a presence in Croatia, or other types of cults that just want your money and mind)  I guess my main point is that if there is a need or desire for a formation of a Croatian Orthodox Church on Croatian soil these days, by Croats who want to use the Greek rite, then so be it.  As mentioned, there was already a Byzantine rite Croatian presence in some places back during the formation of the earliest Croat realms, principalities, dukedoms and kingdom., just like in some other Slavic nations. Who am I to say they can't, mustn't and are forbidden too?...Let alone some religious body or organization from another country tell them they can't


(If you find this piece interesting, you may also like to find out more related information at strossmayeryugoslavia.blogspot.ca regarding the origins of the word/concept of "Yugoslavia" and what exactly the meaning and ideas behind it were. Also, croatianmedievalhistory.blogspot.ca would be of interest to people who would like to know more about Croatia's very early history, from even before we arrived to the Adriatic, which I only touched upon here. *There's a cool documentary video series there too, swords, chainmail armor, battles, intrigue, special effects and all that*)





Related: www.hrvatskipravoslavci.com

croatian-history101.blogspot.cawikipedia.org/Association_of_Croatian_Orthodox_Believers

wikipedia.org/Byzantine_Church_of_Croatia

www.hkv.hr

croatian-history101.blogspot.ca/so-whats-this-serb-lands-crap-all-about?

wikipedia.org/Eparchy_of_Krizevci

strossmayeryugoslavia.blogspot.ca

 http://en.wikipedia.org/Eastern_Catholic_Churches

www.croatianviewpoint.com/OrthodoxChurchInCroatia2010

www.croatianviewpoint.com/WhoAreTheCroatianOrthodox#07





Introduction

Since the beginning of the Christian era, the Greek Orthodox religion has spread into Croatia due to the periodic settlement of various ethnic groups. Orthodox Christians gradually assimilated into Croatian society over the millennia and together with Catholic Croats they formed an integral part of the 19th and 20th century Croatian national struggle. Until the end of WWII a Croatian Orthodox church existed. These facts have been deliberately censored from history, with fatal consequences. These Orthodox people, or 'Pravoslavac' (as they are colloquially known) should have their own Orthodox church in Croatia, but their human rights are denied by the EU's pro-Serbian tradition.

Visible signs appear everywhere that Serbian nationalism is being presented as multiculturalism. For example, in Bosnia and Hercegovina a new statue of 'Multicultural Man' stands in stark contrast to the backdrop of a segregated country where Serbia rules over 49% of the territory. And in Lika, Croatia, a new statue of Nikola Tesla and Tesla multimedia museum are used by Serbia to justify their propaganda and control over all Orthodox people in Croatia. Less than one quarter of the 4.5% Orthodox Christians in the 2001 Croatian census are of Serbian ancestry but all of those ethnic groups are included in Serbian propaganda numbers to justify Serbian territorial expansion in Croatia.




Anatomy of Identity Theft

The identity of the Orthodox people in Croatia has been stolen by Serbia. The Serbian propaganda claims to ethnicity in Croatia are so ridiculous that doubt overshadows credibility. One Serbian website even claims that Serbs created the Croatian national movement in the 19th century, a movement which incidentally they criticize at the same time as having an anti-Serbian platform.

The 17th century migration of Serbian people led by their church Patriarchs into north-east Croatia (Vojvodina) occurred simultaneously with political changes there, following the Ottoman decline. This migration gradually led to Serbian political claims over a wide geographical area of Croatia. By 1848 the Serbian Patriarchate of Srijemski Karlovci was established in Habsburg-occupied Croatian lands.

Meanwhile, in 1879 the Serbian Orthodox Church in Serbia regained its autocephaly and in 1882 the Kingdom of Serbia was recognized. Thus, by 1883 in Croatia, the first Serbian Orthodox schools appeared, and the Serbian flag was being used in their orthodox churches there.  The ethnic status quo in 19th century Hapsburg-occupied Croatia therefore began to change when the Serbian Orthodox Patriarchate was given the opportunity to take over existing Greek Orthodox churches.

By the end of the 19th century most former Greek Orthodox Churches in Croatia were taken over by Serbian priests, and Serbia in this way began to claim all Orthodox people as Serbian constituent people in Croatia.  The choice that emerged was to be either Serbian Orthodox or Catholic Croatian under Austrian/Italian or Hungarian administration.

Following the union of Serbia with the state of Serbs Croats and Slovenes, the Serbian Patriarchate of Srijemski Karlovci was shifted to Belgrade in 1920. By 1931 and the creation of the Serbian dictatorship, the constitution and reorganisation of the Serbian Orthodox church was finalized.  From this time all Orthodox peoples of the whole of Yugoslavia, including Croatia, became classified officially as of Serbian ancestry no matter what their ethnic background.

During WWII a Croatian Orthodox church accommodated the orthodox minorities in Croatia. But after WWII the Croatian Orthodox hierarchy (under Metropolitan Germogen) was executed by orders from Belgrade, and their cathedrals became officially Serbian-a fact little mentioned in history books.  In communist Yugoslavia a nationalist Serbian hegemony was threatened by the existence of the extant Eastern Orthodox Church in Croatia, even though the Greek Orthodox faith there preceded Serbian Orthodoxy. In contrast, the situation with the Catholic church in the former Yugoslavia was more tolerant. A Vatican protocol restricted the church activities, and thus even Cardinal Stepinac was spared an execution following his trial. (Up to 500 Franciscans and Catholic Priests were murdered however by Serbian-led communists after WWII.)




First Apostles in Croatia

In the context of Croatian history we can say that at the time of St. Paul's second imprisonment in Rome, he sent his disciple Titus to Solin or Salona on the Dalmatian coast, where he founded the first Christian See there in AD 65. (see Timothy 2, 4:10) St. Paul had himself travelled and preached as far as Illyricum, today's Croatia, during his third missionary journey between AD 53 and 57. (see Romans 15:19) 10 In addition, many early settlements in Croatia came under the jurisdiction of Constantinople.




Orthodox Vlachs in Croatia

It is said that the Ottomans brought with them nomadic Vlachs (Morlacchi or Wallachs, etc.) to settle land depopulated by either the plague or those who had fled or died during the Ottoman invasion. The majority of these Vlachs of the Orthodox faith were mostly assimilated into Croatian civilization by the 18th century, between Istria and Dubrovnik, and throughout the Lika, Dalmatia and other parts of Croatia. Often these Orthodox settlers along the Adriatic coast had been deliberately forced to inland Croatia by Venice and its Allies, during and after the Ottoman retreat (for example, the Uskoks of Senj)

If these Vlachs had been of Serbian ancestry as claimed, why is it that the land where they originated from was known as 'Turkish Croatia'? In addition, if these migrating Vlachs had been exclusively of mixed Serbian ancestry as claimed by their propagandists it is unlikely that they would have been at the centre of the enlightenment debate. After all, the Vlachs were the virtuous so-called 'noble savages' romanticized by Rousseau. In conflict with Rousseau, Voltaire cited the 'Morlaque' of Dalmatia as an example of people who had a lowly place in the development of enlightened civilization.

In one of many sources which allude to the true ethnicity of the original Orthodox in Croatia, Larry Wolff (in Venice and the Slavs) writes that "The heterogeneous Orthodox society of Zadar included Greek and Russian soldiers and Sarajevo merchants ... and (others) from Corfu and Crete. The Venetians were concerned to reduce foreign influence on Orthodox Dalmatians, including the Morlacchi".

The presence of Vlachs is established in history, philosophy, novels, decrees or statutes, and place names on genuine original maps. 12 Place names such as Latinski Islam or Grcki Islam or the Vlasko More, as well the existence of former Greek or Eastern rite churches in Croatia testify to the existence and identity of the Vlachs and other Orthodox people in Croatia. Vlachs spoke an old vulgar Latin language and used the Latin script and this is no doubt why only five per cent of Misha Glenny's so-called-Krajina Serbs understood the Cyrillic script, something Glenny incorrectly attributed to an alleged Croatian government policy instead of to their non-Serbian ancestry.




Orthodox Stradioti in Croatia

The Stradioti were brought-in by the Venetians from occupied Greece to fight land battles in occupied Croatia. For half a millennium the Stradioti were behind the establishment of the Eastern Greek Orthodox communities in Venetian occupied Croatia. Their existence has been documented in Venetian archives and by many other European contemporaneous sources. Not only did the borders of Venetian occupation change frequently but forced migrations of these Orthodox communities also occurred, leading to new settlements in inland Croatia.

And there were other Orthodox in Croatia including Croats, Czechs, Greeks, Macedonians, Romanians, Russians, Ukrainians, etc. All along the Adriatic coast, and inland, Greek Orthodox churches were built to serve the various Orthodox settlers, many becoming Uniate churches later.

Other evidence of the existence of the Croatian Orthodox people is available. In Zagreb the church known as St. Margaret was first a Greek Orthodox church.  St. Margaret was first a Greek Orthodox church and later taken over by the Serbian Orthodox Church. Today's church of the Serbian Orthodox Metropolis of Zagreb-Ljubljana on Preobrazenska Street Zagreb was originally the Greek Orthodox Church of St. Preobrazenja on Petar Preradovic Square, built in 1866 on the site of a former Catholic church.

Likewise in Sarajevo or Zadar or Lika, the churches now called Serbian Orthodox were originally known as and operated as Greek Orthodox churches which had been built or converted to accommodate the Eastern Orthodox faith to the various settlers therein. In Sarajevo what is now a Serbian Saborna Church was once a Greek Orthodox church that was built in 1882 on the site of Freedom Square (formerly Tomislav Square).

The Orthodox church of St. Ilijha in Zadar  (St. Elias) once served the Greek Orthodox community there and by far not only the Serbs. St. Ilija's Church (St. Elias) church built in 1773 in place of a medieval church (1563) of the same name once served the Greek Orthodox congregation of Russian soldiers, merchants or sailors who had settled there, as well as locals. St. Ilijah only came under the Serbian Dalmatian Eparchy at the end of the 19th century. According to the above-mentioned author Wolff, Obradovic, a visiting Serbian-born pioneer of Serbian ultranationalism in Croatia, was preaching in Zadar in 1771 to what he called a "Schismatic" Orthodox community, but was denied settlement in Skradin because Venetian authorities did not want a 'foreign' influence on the Orthodox rite Dalmatians, Morlacchi or Croats. If the Orthodox settlements there had been Serbian then how would the situation arise that a visiting Serbian priest would be called a 'foreigner' by the Venetian authorities? If the so-called slavicized Orthodox were under "foreign" threat from a visiting Serb, it is not likely that they were at that point in time of mixed Serbian origin. In 1876 in Skradin itself a new church replaced the original Greek Orthodox church which at some point was eventually taken over by Serbian priests and then turned into a strictly Serbian Orthodox church

This take-over pattern was repeated in many settlements throughout Dalmatia and Croatia and is part of the oral history of the local inhabitants, also  and to speak of it in public under the former communist Yugoslav regime or in Royalist Yugoslavia would have meant instant arrest or death. Today it appears that pro-Serbian EU policy has taken over the role of the former Yugoslav government with an agenda of anti-Croatian conditions, or more precisely as seen in the 90's especially, lobbying for conditions that are against all Non-Serbs.

According to the book about the life of Pavlinovic, a 19th century Croatian priest, on the topic of the Orthodox faith in Croatia, the Orthodox peoples of Croatia were not Serbian. According to Pavlinovic the Orthodox in Croatia were members of the old Croatian Greek Orthodox church from the early middle ages, for example, Vlachs or Romanians, Greeks, and other merchants who had assimilated into Croatian society under the Habsburg dynasty. These Vlachs had been recognized as such in Venetian and Habsburg statues since the 17th century. (Vlachs and Wallachian was a very commonly used European languages exonym and historical term used for Eastern Romance-speaking peoples in Eastern Europe, mainly peoples from the population in present-day Romania and Moldova)




 
To sum up, the Orthodox Minorities in Croatia include:


  • descendants of original inhabitants of Pannonia or Dalmatia,
  • the first Croatian settlers, descendants of Croatian Catholics who willingly or forcibly were converted to Orthodoxy
  • descendants of Orthodox Vlachs (introduced by Ottomans into Croatia)
  • descendants of Orthodox Straddiotti (merchants originating from Turkish occupied Greece under Venetian era),
  • other descendants of Czech, Greek, Russian, Romanian, Macedonian, Ukrainian or other  Eastern European immigrants, and among this latter group Serbs are only one of the ethnic groups who came.





Nikola Tesla's Anniversary

On the occasion of the Tesla anniversary in July 2006 the American Ambassador Robert Bradtke visited Tesla's birthplace, Smiljan, north of Gospic in Lika Croatia with the Croatian and Serbian leadership. Mr Bradtke's message about the Tesla anniversary had a diplomatic tone, as he recalled a message from President Bush to President Mesic that "Nikola Tesla is proof that real greatness surpasses national borders and differences".

Elsewhere around Croatia the 150th anniversary of Nikola Tesla's birth has been marketed as evidence of some sort of mythical rapprochement between Serbs and Croats, or as a unifying force in the Balkans. 15 The Year 2006 was proclaimed 'Nikola Tesla Year' by the Croatian government and by UNESCO and the Serbian government.

Around the world However, in contrast to assimilation in America, when there is reference to the Orthodox people in Croatia, the assimilation argument is missing, referring instead to an alleged several hundred years of Serbian settlement in Croatia, without documentation.

The Washington Times headline claims "Tesla's Memory a healing force" (16 July 06). On the Institute for War & Peace Reporting website, D. Hedl claims "Inventor's Memory Brings Croats and Serbs together" (20 July 06). The Setimes website claims "Croats, Serbs put aside differences to honour Tesla" (13 July 06). And the Tesla Memorial Society of New York claim on their website that "Nikola Tesla is a unifying force for peace in the Balkans"; and that the "Proclamation of Nikola Tesla Day through United Nations will increase the brotherhood and peace in the Balkans and throughout the world"! On the Western Australian Science website Serbs celebrate the "Serbian-American" who lit up the world (14 June 06). The Canadian Serbian community celebrated Tesla's anniversary at Niagara Falls calling Tesla "the greatest son of the Serb nation". And the Archive of the Nikola Tesla Museum in Belgrade has been named by UNESCO as "Memory of the World". (Tesla Society website) And in the UK David Bowie is to star in a new film about Tesla entitled "The Prestige".





Nikola Tesla's Ancestry

Talk about Tesla's ancestry was different during his lifetime however, for example when a different American Consul visited Gospic, as told in the chapter, 'A Night in Lika' in a book by Dorothea Orr in 1936. 16 The US Ambassador had visited decades ago in the early 1930s not long after Tesla had appeared on the front of Time Magazine (Vol XV III No. 3, 1931 20 July). On that occasion in Gospic the US Ambassador didn't see any reason to mention Tesla even though the centralist Serbian dictatorship ruled over Croatia! Even in America, during Tesla's lifetime little interest appeared in his ethnicity. Any major public association with Serbian identity seems to have taken place after Tesla's death for political gain.

Tesla's anniversary was not the first time a large gathering was attracted in his name. In January 1943 Serbia or Royalist Yugoslavia was an important WWII western ally, and Tesla's funeral was obviously a convenient platform to express this alliance. Tesla's funeral was a large 'Yugoslav' event in New York. And, at his eulogy the famous Mayor of New York City, LaGuardia, born to Italian and Hungarian Jewish parents from Trieste, described Tesla as the son of a Greek clergyman who had been born in Austria-Hungary and graduated from school in Croatia! He would have chosen his words carefully. LaGuardia had also worked in the US Consulate in Trieste before working at Ellis Island as a translator, eventually rising to the rank of major on the Italian Austrian WWI frontline, then becoming director general for UNRRA in 1946.

Tesla's father, whose real family name was Draganic had been ordained at what had originally been a Greek Orthodox Church, not a Serbian Orthodox church. If there was any portion of Serbian ethnicity in the Draganic or maternal Mandic line it would have originated several hundred years before his ancestors arrival in Hercegovina. Tesla did not attend a Serbian school because none existed at the time in Croatia. Some of the Orthodox churches throughout Dalmatia and Lika we see today were not there when Nikola Tesla was born. The 18th century church of St. Peter & St. Paul (where Nikola Tesla's father was a priest) was renovated several times, but for some unexplained reason it appears that after WWII its façade was changed from the original architectural style to an earlier pilaster style.





St. Peter & Paul Church, Smiljan, Lika Croatia Before WWII



 St. Peter & Paul Church, Smiljan, Lika Croatia After WWII





How long does a person's family have to reside in a place before they identify with its culture? In America it takes about 2 generations, or less. Even prominent American ethnic groups today are worried about the rapid assimilation rate in spite of multiculturalism. However, in contrast to alleged assimilation in America, when there is reference to the Orthodox people in Croatia, the assimilation argument is missing, referring instead to an alleged several hundred years of Serbian settlement in Croatia, without documentation.

In spite of all this however, even Tesla identified himself as a Croat on his arrival at the Castle Garden Immigration office in Manhattan in 1884, even though the Croatian region of his birth was administered from Austria and not directly from Croatia at the time Tesla was living there. In other words, Tesla did not have to say he was from Croatia, and could have said he was from Austria, so he freely made his choice. In any case, Tesla was not the type of individual to overly concern himself emotionally with other people, politics or national fanfare, as it has been acknowledged today that he displayed classic autistic-savant characteristics (similar to well-known Temple Grandin).

The pro-Yugoslav sculptor Ivan Mestrovic, of Croatian birth, had created monuments to honour Tesla as a 'Yugoslav', not as a 'Serb', in America and Belgrade.

And there are other reasons to question the ethnic origin of Nikola Tesla. Tesla's ashes had not been held at an American Serbian church grounds, nor was there ever a bust of Tesla by the Serbian church where Mihajlo Pupin's monument can be found. In addition, if Tesla had really been Serbian, would it not be the case that the Serbian-born scientist and Serbian activist (and one-time Serbian Ambassador in US) M. Pupin in America would have come to his aid in 1911 (Serbia was a recognized nation at that time) when Tesla had a mental breakdown due to the lack of funding for his Wardenclyffe project on Long Island.

Indeed, one website which highlights how Tesla has been virtually erased from American history attributes this to the fact that Tesla did not have large segments of the general public complaining on his behalf. It would appear obvious that until recently Tesla has been almost ignored by Serbia, an observation which is surprising when one considers the might of the former Yugoslav or Serbian lobby in America!

Only after his death did Tesla become more important to Belgrade. The main source of claims to Tesla's Serbian ancestry seem to have originated from Sava N. Kosanovic, a member of the Yugoslav Mission to the USA in New York during WWII. Tesla's sister had married a Serb, and Sava Kosanovic was their son suggesting perhaps that Tesla's association with Serbian ethnicity occurred indirectly through marriage of his relatives, and not through his ancestors.





Nikola Tesla's passport from 25th November 1883. Note in the top left and center the official passport declaration of the government authority and coat of arms of the Croatian Triune Kingdom





At his eulogy the famous Mayor of New York City, LaGuardia, born to Italian and Hungarian Jewish parents from Trieste, described Tesla as the son of a Greek clergyman who had been born in Austria-Hungary and graduated from school in Croatia! He would have chosen his words carefully.  ... Tesla's father, whose real family name was Draganic had been ordained at what had originally been a Greek Orthodox Church, not a Serbian Orthodox church, , even Tesla identified himself as a Croat on his arrival at the Castle Garden Immigration office in Manhattan in 1884, even though the Croatian lands of his birth was administered from Austria and not directly from Croatia at the time Tesla was living there. When one includes the hush-hush little known fact that Tesla received no monetary assistance or support from the Belgrade government or especially from any of the various American-Serb organizations, especially in his later years, claims after his death appear contradictory.  It seems that seeing Tesla as strictly a Serb is a later construct, a product of Serbian nationalist propaganda. (Example: In 1924 Tesla left the Hotel St. Regis in New York owing a debt of over $3,000. After having moved out over six months earlier and never making an effort to resolve the debt, Tesla was sued for the balance. Shortly afterward, a sheriff's deputy was sent to Tesla's office at 8W 40th St. to seize furnishings in order to satisfy the debt. Tesla managed to persuade the officer to grant him an extension. Soon after he meets Ivan Meštrović in New York, an internationally renowned Croatian sculptor.  They became good friends and admirers of each other and later exchanged numerous letters. In the years just prior to his death, even though Tesla did not have any funds, he specifically asked Meštrović make a bust of himself and that it not be sent to Serbia, but rather displayed in Croatia after his death. The Tesla statue was made by Meštrović after his death and currently resides at the Ruđer Bošković Institute in Zagreb. Tesla actually refused numerous times invitations by the Serb king to move to Belgrade, yet he never received a penny or any financial support from him or from the Belgrade government) 





The Politics of Reconciliation

The expression of one's ethnic or religious identity is a basic human right enshrined by the United Nations Charter. It is questionable whether or not the new EU history project in the Balkans will be able to accommodate those human rights in Croatia however.

"Reconciliation through education" is the motto adopted by the Stability Pact in its new Balkan 'History Workbook' project. This project is being developed by the Centre for Democracy and Reconciliation which will present history from a multi-perspective approach, allegedly to eradicate ethnocentrism. The EU's Stability Pact will be called the Regional Cooperation Council in the future and that name change indicates that the next phase of their agenda in the former Yugoslavia is being launched, namely 'conflict resolution'. Conflict Resolution doctrine theorizes that the conflict management process can be thought of as a continuum from total destruction of the other to complete integration with the other". This doctrine artificially imposes reconciliation between former adversaries by building upon the coexistence which was in place before the conflict began in a process of "Peace Learning". It would seem that the EU "Reconciliation through Education" advocates are experimenting with the "Peace Learning" theory.

The disturbing part of this process is that its foundation rests on 'what existed before'. Thus, in place of the former Yugoslavia, we have advocates of an artificial Western Balkan state, with the unstable foundation of the alleged previous peace of the 'negotiated social order'.

The problem is that the previous 'social order' in the former Yugoslavia translated into Serbian-led control of the workplace, education, Orthodox religion, government and military. Foreigners who were shocked at the Serbian bombing of Sarajevo had believed that a successful coexistence existed there before because of the state-manufactured illusion conjured up for the Winter Olympics.

Unfortunately there is no foundation of justice and human rights to build on from the former Yugoslav state. From the perspective of Croatian families who have been subjected to genocide under the former Yugoslavia, their sacrifice for freedom will now be reinterpreted again, this time in schools. The Croatian leaders should ask why their former masters get to alter the new EU history workbooks before they do. From past experience Croats know that this alternative 'multi-perspective' history will serve Serbian nationalism in Croatia, and never reconciliation, because there is no evidence that Serbian nationalism has moderated.




Some Conclusions

The reason for the Serbian ascendancy in Croatia is more complex than mere irredentism. An east-west struggle between superpowers lurks behind the scenes. Croatia, like Greece, has contributed more to western civilization than eastern, but the conversion from Greek Orthodoxy to Serbian Orthodoxy in Croatian territory took Croatia away from western development.

In this essay I have given evidence to show that Croatian society has always been heterogeneous. And, I have shown that the Orthodox believers in Croatia have worshipped in their own Greek Orthodox churches during the past two thousand years. I have also discussed how those Greek Orthodox Churches in Croatia were taken over by the Serbian Patriarchate during Hungarian/Austrian occupation and the former Yugoslavia.

For centuries the Orthodox people in Croatia have been used as 'cannon fodder' and vassals, but not always by the East, as under the Ottomans and the Austro/Hungarian empire. The Venetians also used the Orthodox settlers to fight for their interests against the East. Under the Serbian-led former Yugoslavia however Croatia was taken again into the eastern bloc.

Even today the Serbian minority in Croatia wants to use all the Orthodox numbers for their 'greater-Serbia' ambitions. In 1991 Serbs in Croatia may have failed in their attempt to link territory to the issue of minority rights but in the 21st century there is evidence that their goals have not yet changed. For example around the world Serbian publicity about the 150th anniversary of Nikola Tesla reveals the emphasis placed on his alleged Serbian ancestry, even though contradictory evidence exists and his ancestors had lived in Croatian territory for centuries. Indeed, nowhere has it ever been written that Tesla's ancestry reaches back to 'Serbia' per se. Actually, the claims go only back to his origins in 'Herzegovina', where the absurd Serbian claim that all Vlachs there were of Serbian ancestry is without foundation.

It would seem that some in the European Union want to 'contain' Croatia, and to do this they are bowing to Serbian intransigence in Croatia and in Bosnia & Herzegovina. This pro-Serbian sentiment in the EU illustrates how an east-west struggle still exists there, one reason why the European Union still has no constitution or unified foreign policy.

An atmosphere of greater religious freedom and equality in Croatia would go a long way towards reconciliation. For example, much confusion exists in Catholic sources about 19th century Croatian history. Conflicting information, with missing dates and incorrect sequencing of events, creates a maze which allows Serbian propaganda to continue unchallenged. It's as if the Nikola Tesla Museum complex is the reincarnation of the Yugoslav Academy of Arts and Sciences.

The following question needs to be answered. Why is lobbying for the creation of a Croatian Orthodox Church not 'politically correct' - after all, if Montenegro and Macedonia can have an Orthodox Church, why not Croatia? The metamorphosis of Croatian Orthodoxy under Serbian leadership for the past century has been the source of destabilization, and until the issue is resolved no reconciliation will occur at a grass roots level. Will the EU's alternative perspective 'history workbooks' reflect the will of the Croatian people? Perhaps only Croatian membership in NATO can create an east-west balance of power in Croatia. One thing is for certain, politically correct manipulation of history will not lead to reconciliation.





Serb church religion patriarchs and leaders with Serb war criminals and other Serb extremists during the kissing of the Serbian bread. A common scene throughout the 90's Serb wars of aggression, organized murder and ethnic cleansing campaigns, and also common today. The trance-like state of the extremist spectators/supporters in the background are detached from reality because the Serbian bread has become a symbolic tool to kill Non-Serbs, a bready mystical nourishment towards more Non-Serb/Turk deaths in their philosophy. The crumbly bread has become Serbian cereal that was made with the crushed powdery bones of Non-Serbs instead of flour, Serbian water then binds the bread loaf to make it easier to kiss. Both Serb bread kissers seen above are now being tried at the Hague for crimes against humanity, war crimes, organized mass murders and ethnic cleansing and yet are still Serb heroes/saints/martyrs in the Serb church and national psyche still even today.





Seizure of Croatian Orthodox Churches

At the end of WWII the Metropolitan Germogen and 42 priests of the Croatian Orthodox Church were executed under the Yugoslav communist regime by those who Obrknezevic described as "Great Serbian chauvinists" ... "a communist system was biased to such an extent regarding the existence of the Croatian Orthodox Church that it took a standpoint of militant intervention for the exclusiveness of the Serbian Orthodox Church, as the only Orthodox Church..." In the 21st century, as in the 19th and 20th century Serbia uses the Croatian parliament and the Serbian Orthodox church as a platform for their irredentist policies.

An atmosphere of greater religious freedom and equality in Croatia should be non-negotiable. Why is the creation of a Croatian Orthodox Church not 'politically correct' if every other nation in the world has its own national Orthodox church. 


 researched by Jean Lunt Marinovic





*The below image and information is an update in 2016, as information for the benefit of the reader and as supplementary information to some comments below.




Metropolitan Germogen (left) and Metropolitan bishop of the Russian Orthodox, Church Anthony of Sourozh.





Germogen (Georgy Ivanovich Maximov) was bishop of Aksay (9 May 1910 - 1919), Vicar of the Don Diocese, 23rd Bishop of Yekaterinoslav and Novomoskovsk (1919 - November 1920), Governor of the Russian Orthodox municipalities on Crete and North Africa with a seat in Athens (1922), Archbishop of Yekaterinoslav and Novomoskovsk (ROCOR, titular) (1922–1942), as well as a member of the Synod of Bishops of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad (1924–1942) before becoming Patriarch (or Metropolitan) of the Croatian Orthodox Church. (Consecrated by Romanian Orthodox Church Metropolitan Visarion who was sent to Zagreb by the anti-communist Patriarch Nikodim Munteanu, Patriarch of All Romania) Metropolitan Anthony of Sourozh was a monk and Metropolitan bishop of the Russian Orthodox Church. He was also founder and for many years bishop - then archbishop, then metropolitan - of the Diocese of Sourozh, the Patriarchate of Moscow's diocese for Great Britain and Ireland, and exarch in Europe

After a new Yugoslav communist regime took over power on the 9th of May 1945, and in collusion with Serb Orthodox Church leaders, the Croatian Orthodox Church was immediately abolished and Germogen was arrested. The Serbian Orthodox Church leadership again demanded that they should be the only allowable Orthodox Church institution and organization in the new communist country (just as the years between 1919 and 1941 during the short lived Serb royal dictatorship) insisting that all and any Orthodox rite peoples in the new Communist state, (no matter what their ethnicity or national affiliation), should be subservient to and under control of the Serbian Orthodox Church only...




 Serbian Nazi collaborator and Head of State and PM of war time Serbia, Milan Nedić (left) and a Serbian Orthodox Church leader blessing volunteers. The Serbian government under Nedić along with the unanimous support of the Serbian Orthodox Church leadership and their armed volunteers, were behind numerous atrocities against Non-Serbs (and even many Serbs) on their territory, but also helped arm Serb chetniks to commit massacres against Non-Serbs elsewhere also. Serb chetnik groups along with Serb Church support were particularly renown and notorious for committing numerous massacres against any civilians who did not join their ranks or support their cause while traveling in rural areas or wherever they were found. The Serbian Orthodox Church was de facto the sanctioned  and imposed state religion between 1918-1941, being the religion of the former Serb dictator king. Serbian Orthodox Church willingness and enthusiastic support to help make an envisioned future so-called Greater Serbia cleansed and free of Jews (along with Non-Serbs) was deemed by their leadership and supporters even as a holy mission. History has shown numerous times that the sole fundamental purpose of the Serbian Orthodox Church has been to promote and even initiate policies, wars and massacres against Non-Serbs.




...Consequently the quickly put together main trial of Germogen was a fixed show trial, (ie; a public trial in which the judicial authorities have already determined the guilt of the defendant, without proofs, reasons and without any chance or opportunity to prove innocence against any charges. The actual show trial has as its only goal to present the accusation and the verdict to the public as an impressive example of power and as a warning to other would-be dissidents or transgressors) It was held on the 29th of June 1945 and Germogen was immediately found guilty by the new ad hoc Yugoslav and Serb Orthodox Church leadership for the crime of helping Croatian equal historical rights and of agreeing to officially serve as Patriarch of the Croatian Orthodox Church. Germogen was then beastially murdered in cold blood by firing squad with compliant Serb Orthodox leadership assent on the 30th of June 1945 at age 84.

(Eyewitness sources state that even though he was unjustly treated like a lamb to the slaughter, he never pleaded for mercy or recanted his decision to verily help bring the Croatian people their equal historical rights also)




Just one of numerous documented examples of the handiwork and methods of Serbian church supported chetnik irregulars in 1941, in this case children mutilated and bashed with hammer. As mentioned, the Serb chetnik groups along with Serb Church support were particularly renown and notorious for committing numerous massacres against any civilians and homes that did not join their ranks or support their cause while traveling in rural areas or wherever they were found. 




Five decades later, on 23 September 2010 the Synod of Bishops of the Russian True Orthodox Church (RIPC) held in the Church of Saint John of Kronstadt in Odessa (Ukraine), "declared Germogen as a Christian Orthodox martyr." The Synod of Bishops of the Russian True Orthodox Church also declared Serafim Kupčevski, Aleksij Borisov and others executed with Germogen as martyrs also. However, the Serbian Orthodox Church immediately expressed hate-filled outrage over this righteous decision against their wishes and lobbied vehemently to reverse the declaration of the Synod of Bishops of the Russian True Orthodox Church, and so 65 years later they murdered the innocent Germogen and the other martyrs in their graves once again as a further insult.




Serbian Orthodox Church supported chetnik groups first made an appearance during the Serbo-Bulgarian war of 1885, and again during the 1st and 2nd Balkan Wars of 1912-13, mainly known for committing atrocities against Bulgarian, Albanian and other Non-Serb civilians. They also appeared again in 1919 committing massacres against Montenegrin civilians also, again with full support of the Serbian Orthodox Church. (Click onto enlarged image HERE)




However, the self-styled Holy Synod of the Serbian Orthodox Church even to this day also refuses to acknowledge and recognize the Montenegrin Orthodox Church and the Macedonian Orthodox Church declared autocephaly and independence status, (Macedonian Orthodox Church – Ohrid Archbishopric, declared independent and autocephalous in 1967 and an Archbishopric history dating to 1019 ) as the Serbian Orthodox Church regards itself as the only and preeminent Orthodox institution in all those regions (even where Serbs are a very small minority) and has instead denounced their decisions, condemned their churches, historical/cultural heritage rights and especially their clergy as errant and schismatic.


* Although the Croatian lands are and have been for many centuries predominantly western Roman Catholic culturally and western-central European civilizationally oriented, in Croatia today the Montenegrin Orthodox Church and the Macedonian Orthodox Church are officially recognized by the state with full rights as national churches, along with the Croatian Greek-Catholics and other National Orthodox Church minorities.






15 comments:

  1. I am with you all the way on the topic of Nikola Tesla's place of birth. As to his ethnicity, I couldn't really give a toss if he was Serb or Croat but if he was indeed Croat or part Croat then this should be given recognition. For those that don't know, Tesla actually said 'I was born in Croatia.' He said that in his tribute letter to King Alexander I of Yugoslavia, (click on the image to enlarge)http://www.teslasociety.com/kingalexander.gif
    It doesn't matter that Croatia wasn't recognised as an independent country, Tesla still knew what was Croatian territory. Apparently there is a plaque or bust in the Power Vista at Niagara Falls upon which it is written that Tesla said 'I am from Croatia.' I am working on getting a photograph of that. In Zagreb, the capital city of Croatia there is a plaque on the old city hall, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Spomen_ploca_Nikola_Tesla_0108.JPG
    The plaque translates- 'I consider it my duty as a born son of his country to help the city of Zagreb in every way with advice and act- Said in this building NIKOLA TESLA 24 May, 1892, When he proposed to the city council to build a centre for the transmission of alternating current'.
    Nikola Tesla had many Croatian friends including the famous Croatian sculptor Ivan Mestrovic, the violinist Zlatko Balokovic, the boxer Fritzie Zivic known as the 'Croat Comet'. Tesla sponsored Fritzie and attended some of his bouts. Also Marijan Matijevic from Lika, Croatia known as the strongest man in the world at the time visited Tesla on April 12 1927. Marijan performed a show for Tesla demonstrating amazing feats of strength, bending iron bars, breaking rocks etc. Marijan had donated money from several shows organised for Tesla and his inventions. Tesla was grateful and it is said that he wrote- 'I have a tremendous desire to live and continue my work and the support extended to me from one loyal friend and athlete- did the miracle. My health returned, and along with that also mental strength...' Translated from Croatian-'Ogromna zelja da zivim i da nastavim svoj rad i podrska koju mi je pruzio jedan odani prijatelj i atleta- ucinili su cudo. Zdravlje mi se vratilo, a s njom i umna snaga...'
    Nikola Tesla's ashes do not belong in a museum in Serbia. Tesla's ashes belong in either his adopted country, America or in his homeland of Croatia. Nikola Tesla had only been to Serbia once and that was in 1892 when he visited Belgrade. In Ivan Mestrovic's book 'Prisjecanja na ljude i dogodaja', Nikola Tesla had told him that he had experienced something in Belgrade that made him never want to return to the city.

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  2. Thanks for the comment, that was the point of this post. There's been plenty of new information that has come out after his death especially, many things edited and suppressed, rewriting his history and words attributed to him. I also find the Romanian connection interesting, definitely some things worth taking into consideration. In the end he was no Serb nationalist chetnik type, he acknowledged Croatian lands, people culture when many in Serbia, especially their politicians didn't and had different schemes in mind. (See http://strossmayeryugoslavia.blogspot.ca/)

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  6. We all know who really are orthodox people from Croatia.They are mostly Romanians (vlachs) and orthodox Croats, but they are all serbianized long time ago.Now its too late to talk about this.We should do something long time ago !

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  7. Firstly, that's exactly why the population of serbia and many serbs are a bunch of mixed up people, there's no such thing as a serb and hasn't been since the middle ages, not even close to a “serb race” they even use today in some places, it is folly and fantasy. Over 400 years of ottoman empire administration and subjugation ensured that many peoples from not even Europe travelled through and then settled in the various pashaluks and sanjaks, Turks, Arabs, Saracens, Moors you name it. I laugh when I hear or see talk about the serbian church or serbian history. Scratch underneath a serb and you'll find who the hell knows what, it's just an old appellation anyway and not a people.

    Secondly, Croats are not a religion, we are not a church, Croat (Hrvati) tribes arrived to where we are, and beyond, long before being associated with any Christianity. I'm about history, facts, science, so I wouldn't care either way if a Croatian decides upon Catholic or Croatian Orthodox. I never had an inclination to become a priest, to join a monastery, to become a nun, (obviously since I’m a guy) no inclination whatsoever, or cared much about doing the sign of the cross this way or that way, bowing this way and not that way etc.

    Secondly, I don’t care and would actually support a Croatian Orthodox church, I wouldn’t have a problem with it. After all, if there’s going to be an Orthodox presence in Croatia it should be, and is, a Croatian Orthodox church that reigns supreme in that sphere, just like other countries have their own national Orthodox churches on their territory, it’s common sense, Orthodox churches are all nationally based.

    Thirdly, it’s never to late for anything, with that attitude there never would have been a Croatian Kingdom in the middle ages, heck, we never would have had even small park named after us. We would have just easily been completely conquered and assimilated by the Bulgarians, by the Frankish empire, by Venice, by Hungary, by Austria and by the Ottomans, the early Croatian dukes and kings would have become fishermen or watched flocks instead.

    Fourthly, everyone knows that the serb orthodox church is different in many regards from other orthodox country churches, more like a cult, they have traditions and customs that the other orthodox churches don’t have and spin their own fiction histories to make themselves fee superior and special (10,000 year old serbs, from outer space, serbian heaven and water and all that garbage) Look, what’ the first thing they started doing after getting their own serbian orthodox church, the started building monasteries, monasteries all over the place after conquering kosovo.(pfff, big deal) monasteries in modern day Macedonia, called Macedonian Slavonia in the middle ages. Was it serbs living there, no it was various other slavic tribes, but they had to join the serb orthodox religion, serbian monasteries wherever they conquered or even temporarily were found. But guess what, stories doesn’t change reality.

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  8. There already is a Croatian Orthodox church working towards becoming autocephalous and official, as it should be for the reasons explained earlier. I don’t even care how many members it will have, it won’t be a lot because the Croatian lands are a western Catholic and European civilizational history. Istanbul is not our Mecca. It could 5,000, 500, 100 or even 5. It doesn’t matter to me, better Croatian Orthodox church than those crazy mormons, jehovahs witnesses, alien cults and televangelist scammers. After all, Macedonia finally broke away from serb orthodox church control and got it’s own Macedonian Orthodox church in 1967, Montenegro broke away and has had the Montenegrin Orthodox church only since 1993, They escaped the clutches and control of the serbian cult church. Good for them.

    The facts show that the serbian orthodox church was in accordance with the ottoman empire for centuries, helping spread their attacks, and then building more monasteries. The ottomans and serbs had the same enemy and common goal for centuries, that being the destruction of the western european civilizational process, european culture and european catholic countries, because they had a renaissance, humanism, freedom, literature and traditions and because Rome was not in Turkey, etc. Like I said, Croats are not defined by religion and we are not a religion, so we can have a national Croatian orthodox church also, and the good thing is that it is strictly Latin script and Croatian alphabet. Croatia even already has a long history of eastern rite long before serbs started building monasteries, also Greek Catholic, you know that the orthodox churches that were in Croatian lands were stolen by the serb orthodox church, that’s because not only Croatians could go there, but also Russians, Greeks, Bulgarians etc. Serbian cult church changed that because serbs must only go to serb orthodox church, hence how Romanians-Vlachs were forced to convert and call themselves serbs and marry ugly serb women. Simply terrible, Dracula would turn in his grave.

    Today Croatia is overwhelmingly and primarily Catholic and a western Catholic European nation but you can find adherents to the Bulgarian Orthodox and Macedonian Orthodox Church and even Montenegrin Orthodox also. It therefore makes perfect sense to have a supreme Croatian Orthodox Church as well, an orthodox church specifically for the Croatian nation too. 50 member or 50000 members it doesn’t matter. If they want o wear different robes and stand around differently so be it. If there’s going to other cults, gurus and religions trying to make a presence in Croatia, then they can too. Croatia will always be considered western and catholic oriented nation because of our civilizational linear history, but there should be a Croatian orthodox church also, (just no mormons, jehovahs witnesses, scientologists, alien cults and televangelist scammers, and a few others) The Drava and Sava river will flow backwards before Croatia falls under their rule also.

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  9. ...I could go and on with plenty of examples to show what I'm talking about, probably stuff you already know, But here's just a little more interesting tidbits to show what I mean, just about the Macedonian orthodox church.

    The Macedonian orthodox church was forced to remain in canonical unity with the Serbian church for centuries, to lord over them even though they have a different language, different history, different nation and traditions etc. (Since 1918 after occupying and annexing the northern part of Macedonia, several of the Bulgarian exarchate's dioceses were also forcefully taken over by the serbian orthodox church) Then because of the church politics and power playing it was only in 1967, on the bicentennial anniversary of the abolition of the archbishopric of Ohrid, that the Macedonian Church unilaterally announced its autocephaly and independence from the Serbian orthodox Church. The" serbian holy synod" then immediately went on the offensive and denounced the decision vehemently and condemned the Macedonian clergy as schismatic. That's why since that time the Macedonian Church has remained unrecognized by the Orthodox Ecumenical Patriarchate in Istanbul and even all the other canonical Orthodox churches in the area likewise have received serbian opposition and condemnation from serb church leaders and their synod. How is that for brotherly orthodox brothers etc? lol. You would think they would be supportive and help them, but they prefer to instead have jurisdiction/territorial pissing grounds rights on grounds that doesn't even belong to them, telling other nations churches what they can and can't do. Like I said, it's not a church, it's a cult, a cult that many, many times is nothing more than a political tool..

    Do you notice a pattern here? The serb orthodox church, it's "serb church synod" is the only one that wants to remain in power over all others in the region or even make them non-existent, this helps explain some of my previous points. What business is it of serb religious leaders and their synod to say who can, but mostly who can't (or they will be labelled schismatic) have their own national orthodox church under their own national church leaders? The pattern is obvious, to try to make more serbs you have to use church politics to stamp out opposition, attack their works or at least denigrate and criticize them, even if they are a different nation, until the serbian bread and serbian milk from serbian cows who eat serbian grass in serbian fields are on every persons dinner table and then they all go to serbian heaven to kiss st. karadzics, mladic and seseljs ass.

    Heck, like I said, I believe in science, facts, history, dna, and logic, I don't believe in various preposterous stories and garbage. But I would have no problem showing up once a year to a Croatian orthodox church service, probably just new years. Eat some Croatian bread and wine, maybe the next day wear a Germogen t-shirt, maybe with "Germogen's Revenge" written on it in Croatian alphabet. lf various kinds of kooky brainwashing cults and voodoo gurus can come to Croatia to preach and start up churches, then the Croatian orthodox church should be up and running also, it's only fair and common sense. I don't care if there's not even enough members to fill one puny church.The Croatian orthodox church can then have get togethers with the Montenegrin, Bulgarian, Romanian and Macedonian orthodox churches and make pies and bread without serbian milk and serbian water or serbian eggs and serbian flour, But like I said, you know serb church leaders and their synod would then bewail and huff and puff right away pronouncing it as all just a schismatic association because it's all politics with them and their serb religion cult. That's the way political-religious cults operate, it's all about power and brainwashing.

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  10. I have a few spare moments so here's a few more quick points to consider..

    There's no more Byzantine empire these days, hasn't been a Byzantine empire for a number of centuries, Constantinople is history and gone, hello Istanbul. There hasn't been a Byzantine emperor for many centuries, which means it's not the 5th, 9th or 12th century anymore. It's a very different world and the politics and resulting alliances and religious camps is gone also.

    ...today there are many orthodox churches, in varying degrees, Poland has their own autocephalous orthodox church yet it is overwhelmingly a catholic nation. Ukraine has 3 orthodox churches, also as well as a Greek catholic church, Russia granted autocephalous status to the orthodox church of america in the last century, but because it's all mostly politics and jurisdictional garbage left over from Byzantine empire times, this is the reason the serb church has pronounced as "schismatic" any new national orthodox church in the region, like they think it's their turf, which is pathetically ridiculous and absurd. (The Bulgarian orthodox church has been very cordial and supportive to and with the Macedonian orthodox church for years, but the serb church constantly proclaims them as schismatics and their so-called "holy shmolly synod" always votes to turn down their Macedonian orthodox church autocephalous status. They think only they have the right to any people of orthodox persuasion, all it takes is 1 vote from the 14 autocephalous national orthodox churches to turn down a request, like the serb synod always does. Hello 19th century politics and more politics. (btw, did you know that the serbs were under the Bulgarian patriarchate and orthodox church jurisdiction for centuries before there even was a serbia let alone serb church, look up the history and politics of orthodox churches, it will boggle your mind and make you just want to yawn)

    Yep, a Germogen Maximov t-shirt would sound like a great idea, heck, maybe even a tattoo of the Croatian orthodox church logo, (It's got the cool looking Croatian chequy in the background, and it's strictly Latin script Croatian alphabet too, which makes sense) Yep, maybe even get the tattoo on my back, underneath one of my other ones, and around the logo have something written like "Don't Fuck With Germogen Maximov", or "Germogen's Holy Revenge", maybe both, one in the Croatian alphabet and the other one in Croatian Glagolitic script. Why? because I'm Croatian and I can, it would look pretty cool I can guarantee you. If Ukraine can have 3 national churches, if Poland can have an autocephalous orthodox church, and many other nations, then we can too. After all, we already had a Croatian Kingdom before most of them even existed, even well before there was a Russia, who only got their own national orthodox church in the 16th century. We were around long before there was a serb orthodox church, so that trumps their serb church politics. We came down from the north to where we are today at the request and permission of the Byzantine emperor Heraclius, not the serb church. We don't eat their serbian bread, we make our own.

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  11. ....and lastly, as final thought and information for the benefit of the reader, it's important to know that even todays oldest and most well known orthodox national churches going back even to Byzantine empire times......

    ......NONE OF THEM WERE CREATED BY ANY CHURCHLY POWER OR DECREED INTO EXISTENCE, NEVER AT ANY TIME DID ANY SPECIAL ORTHODOX COUNCIL OR ANY CHURCH SYNOD "CREATE" AN AUTOCEPHALOUS CHURCH. INSTEAD THEY SIMPLY "DECLARED THEMSELVES AUTO-CEPHALOUS" ON THEIR OWN. (AUTOCEPHALOUS JUST MEANS "SELF-GOVERNING/SELF-RULING")

    "AUTOCEPHALY" STATUS AS A CONCEPT WAS NEVER AT ANY TIME A PART OF ANY CHURCH ORGANIZATIONAL CONCEPT OR AN OFFICIAL DOCTRINE/LAW. THEY JUST SIMPLY "DECLARED THEMSELVES AUTOCEPHALOUS" ALL ON THEIR OWN. Then for centuries later tradition (and politics playing a major role if one knows a little about history) just eventually recognized them as such. Knowing this, this then is the route that the Croatian and any other national orthodox church is taking and has the right to take also as they see fit, this is how they all began after all. BY DIVINE RIGHT AND IN THE NAME OF OUR CROATIAN NATION AND COUNTRY, WE ALSO SIMPLY DECLARE OURSELVES AS HAVING A CROATIAN AUTOCEPHALOUS ORTHODOX CHURCH as well, just like the other ones did, and any other country can have their own national autocephalous orthodox church likewise. It is our right to do so.

    It doesn't matter if 50,000, 5,000, 500 or 5 members make up the whole autocephalous Croatian orthodox church. We must not forget the actions of the wise and benevolent Russian bishop, archbishop and patriarch Germogen Maximov when he took it upon himself to right a great wrong against the Croatian people, nation and history. We must remember that he paid the ultimate price for his God given mission to bring justice and equal rights to the Croatian nation. In the end this man of God was slaughtered like a sacrificial swine, shot and killed after a pathetic show trial, he was murdered by the by Serb nationalists in belgrade, Serbo-Yugoslavs authorities and Serb orthodox church officials. A wise and innocent elderly Russian holy man murdered by a triad of serb nationalists, extremist serb religion and church leaders, communists and criminals. He was murdered by a a triad of beastial evil. So today we right the great wrong, we Croats and the other nations/countries then likewise also declare our own national autocephalous orthodox churches. They are the supreme national orthodox churches on their territory, as it should be.

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  13. Thanks for the comment, these are good facts to know also, very good news actually. As I already partly explained and showed, it is our divine right, historical right as well as common sense that the Croatian Orthodox Church be supreme on Croatian territory (whosoever decides to go that route) as well as abroad if need be. Let's not forget, the Croats and Croatia, since the medieval age and times of the Croatian Kings and Prince/Dukes, has overwhelmingly been a part of the western civilizational process, sphere and dynamics, and then through the following over 900 years always a part of that central European political power base and culture, so it was naturally not a major importance or issue as it was part of the same religious sphere also. Knowing this, let's also not forget that far in the past during the those times of Croatian rulers, there already was a national Croatian church (in Croatian history is the fascinating fact that there were times when we used 3 scripts simultaneously, 3 national scripts were used occasionally, Latin, Cyrillic and Glagolitic being the oldest Croatian national script, cyrillic script during those times was not a specifically designed and codified script yet, however Latin lingua franca and then the Latin Croatian script that grew out it overwhelmingly took hold and became official many centuries ago ), that "national Croatian church" from the middle ages will then quite simply be resurrected, it's an easy math and common sense.

    If these days all sorts of strange cults and mind control subversives can come from the west and start proselytizing in Croatia and opening churches (Jehova wintesses, mormons, evangelical baptists etc, or even any other cult that worships cheese or heads of lettuce or statue of an alien or whatever), then a Croatian Orthodox Church also likewise has the right to exist and be supreme on Croatian territory naturally. The serb patriarchs and church should really concern itself much more with all their monasteries in Kosovo and other places that are not part of Croatian territory or history, that's their history no ours, we will eat our own Croatian bread not anyone elses. We are not the ones attempting to play political control games or vetoing and telling other nations that they can't have their own independent national orthodox church or anything else just because. (Or maybe they should concern themselves more with their serb church blessed heroes sitting in the serbian wing of the Hague, ship them some care packages of serbian bread to eat, etc) This is the sole reason why the wise Patriarch Germogen was beastially killed by serbs like a common swine wallowing in his own filth, because he did the right thing and stood up for Croatian rights and history. His great and terrible sin that was worthy of a barbaric murder by serbs was simply for the reason that he did the right thing. Croats will bake and eat our own bread, we don't want or need serb monasteries in Kosovo or elsewhere that are not ours or part of Croatian or anyone elses history.

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  14. I just came back to this post to verify the spelling of something, and I might as well add another comment. Coincidentally just after seeing the news today about the st sava serb orthodox cathedral catching fire last night in New York. So here's some more information about that fire which coincidentally ties in perfectly again with this topic. That being that the Serb Cathedral (which was originally the Episcopalian Trinity Chapel Complex btw, built in 1855 and purchased in 1944 by the Serb church) has since 1962 contained a hand-carved oak iconostasis brought from the Monastery of St. Naum in Ohrid, Macedonia. How's that for irony and hubris? Because as you probably already know, the Monastery of St. Naum was established in the Bulgarian Empire in 905 by St Naum of Ohrid himself and St Naum is also buried in the church. Also you probably know that The Macedonian Orthodox Church – Ohrid are united under the Archbishop of Ohrid and Macedonia. It is in fact a Macedonian Orthodox Church cultural heritage and property and not Serb. Yet as already pointed out, in 1967 the Serbian Holy Synod denounced the decision of the MOC declaring unilateral autocephaly and condemned the clergy and whole Macedonian Orthodox Church as schismatic and errant. Now that's really something when the facts are presented, the Serb Church will take Macedonian cultural/religious heritage objects for a newly purchased cathedral in New York but at the same time they deny Macedonian Orthodox Church rights and history and denigrate the Macedonian peoples wishes and rights. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monastery_of_Saint_Naum

    How long must those Non-Serbs suffer under the yoke of so-called Serbdom and Serb church dirty politics Oh Lord? What a sad state of affairs and just another example of usurping/stealing again from others and then calling them the wrong doers and schismatics. haha, Hilarious absurdity and hubris mindset again. Just like the Serb church leaders position against the Montenegrin Orthodox Church also. Without a doubt this recent Serb Cathedral fire is a divine hand against their transgressions and megalomaniacal attitudes about Non-Serbs. For years and even just recently Serb nationalists, war criminal supporters, chetniks and other Serb extremists in league with Serb church leaders have and still are burning American flags, Kosovo flags, Albanian flags, European Union flags, Croatian flags, Nato flags and others flags. It's also ironic that these people were the same ones praising Bin Laden and the Taliban and celebrating the events and deaths of 9-11, even calling Bin Laden a Serb...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bunIMTGrVnE
    ............

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  15. What kind of monstrosity and people are this? and what crazy absurd ideas and thoughts are always floating in their minds along with 800 year old flies? So much self-importance and arrogance just because they are such good thiefs and liars, something really special and holy. Pfff, lol.

    Oh don't worry, the Virgin Mary Theotokos verily will raise her outspread cloak and protect all Non-Serbs everywhere, the divine hand and finger will shoot forth more flames for the Serb church cult and their nefarious gurus, bringing those Non-Serbs freedom once and for all from heads filled with 800 year old holy dung and flies who buzz around telling stories. The Serb church treachery of conspiring with the Ottoman empire for centuries to fill their bellies with gold will bring forth the day they will dread, they will be haunted until the day they die for all the crimes they perpetrated and still do today in many ways. https://www.facebook.com/Support-for-Muammar-al-Gaddafi-from-the-people-of-Serbia-143360419060495/photos

    The Serb church lust for the cold blooded murder of Germogen will be avenged and the heavens verily proclaim as much, Germogens innocent spilled blood even today sends forth curses and helps direct the divine flames of the Lord upon the people who have sinned a great sin, and so also upon their brick and mortar palace of the damned, which are just shacks of absurdity bought with blood money through the centuries, they sealed their own coffin centuries ago while others battled the intruders and protected the continent from them. The Serb church cult will then have to do the unthinkable....to rule only its own backyard and take off the hat that is a crown of deceit, lies and falsity made by their own hands for themselves only. There is no more blood stained Ottoman gold for Serb Pashas and gurus to take anymore for their collusion and deceitful proclamations and desires, the bribery filled days of the Sanjak of Smederevo have done enough damage. Alba Bulgarica even accuses them from ancient winds, Dar Al Jihad is their true home and paradise. May the Lady Theotokos smite them with her outstretched hand back to their own blood and dross filled backyard dwelling place empire which they created for themselves, so let them now rule and enjoy their serb lands and serb ways and mighty serb bread feasts. To the Serb church selfish and deranged leaders and their minions, the Non-Serbs across the lands everywhere verily proclaim...."Let the Macedonians and Montenegrins go because they were never yours nor do they follow your invented Serb creeds", thus sayeth the Holy Lady Virgin Mary Theotokos against the tribe of the dancing and singing megalomaniacs of the Sanjak of Smederevo.

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